Edinburgh People's Festival 2003

'Whose Culture Is It Anyway?' From Wester Hailes Education Centre

A Transcript of the Debate

PDF IconDownload this transcript as a PDF file


Photos of the Debate

panel

Chair : Sian Fiddimore, Co-ordinator of Wester Hailes Arts Project [WHALE]


Panel:

Irvine Welsh sent a statement and asked that it be read out on his behalf


Colin Fox , Chairman of the Edinburgh People's Festival made a brief welcoming speech highlighting the remarkable artistic talent, knowledge, opinion and experience assembled by the Edinburgh People's Festival and how this represented a real feather in the EPF's cap. He was delighted that all had agreed to accept the invitation and speak in this debate. He was able to say that each speaker had welcomed the emergence of the EPF and believed it has an important role to play and indeed were all optimistic about it's future.


Sian Fiddimore welcomed all the speakers and introduced each one as well as encouraged interventions from the audience whilst allowing views to flow freely among those at the top table.


1. Paul Gudgin, Director of the Edinburgh Festival Fringe spoke first. He welcomed the EPF and felt sure that Edinburgh would benefit from the EPF's involvement as it had done previously with the MELA and folk Festivals in recent years. The Fringe began, said Paul, in 1947 with eight companies who had been denied access to the official festival programme. The perception that the Fringe is a cash-cow, essentially a commercial operation, is not the case. It is intrinsically a celebration of art/culture and if it wasn't, he'd personally have no part in it.


To charges that the Fringe is elitist or inaccessible for Edinburgh people he highlights certain facts and figures *350,000 tickets (of 1m) sold to citizens *Fringe Sunday was the best thing about the whole Fringe, with more than 200,000 people, local people taking part.


It is therefore ridiculous to refer to the Fringe as a celebration for an arts establishment or 'Edinbourgeoisie'.


Paul wished the EPF every success, offered to include next years events/programme in the Fringe brochure. He apologised for having to leave debate early.


2. Richard Demarco quickly established himself as the main attraction of the evening. He thoroughly approved of the EPF. He had, he believed, been fighting against the odds of Edinburgh Festivals for 40 years. The EPF would succeed without doubt because it had 'lots of love in it'.


The question for everyone here tonight is to what extent we can persuade people to love Wester Hailes and come out and see things in an atmosphere you can only get here - a spirit, feeling, atmosphere etc.


Wester Hailes was a section of our city NOT invited to the party. This meeting tonight represents an extraordinary moment, an incredibly encouraging event. "Let's make the next meeting in a few months in NE Arts Centre in Granton. Write to them and others and let us all meet there."


We should be talking to the council to get travel/transport to Wester Hailes for Festival events.


Richard recalled when the Edinburgh Festival was much more spread out. He recounted for example a young Dudley Moore playing piano to 40 people at Portobello Town Hall many years ago. We ought to ask the people of Wester Hailes to produce banners, sculptures, works of art, shows etc for next years EPF.


'The Angels are on our [EPF]] side'. I am optimistic and eager.'


3. Tam Dean Burn said that 'Energy and positivity are what counts most and the EPF has it in abundance'. Chekov can change your life. That was my experience in 1976. EPF is about access to the arts, is not in opposition to the rest but insists everyone be invited and that's not the case presently. In Great Junction Street, Leith, you'd never know there was a festival on today! The MTV awards cost £750,000 for a four day venue. How much does Edinburgh Council give to the Fringe? PG said it was £14,000. Lot's of people I know can't afford to go to Edinburgh Festival and Fringe because of the cost of the tickets. In the Citizens Theatre in the Gorbals, tickets for locals are £1.00. Quality is what matters.'


4. Robert Rae asked Paul 'Who is this Festival for? Which people are not invited to the party?' In an outstanding contribution Robert Rae highlighted many of the key questions of the night.


'Why do so many people in Edinburgh not consider the festival to be for them?' What 'model' is best for this the 'biggest arts festival in the world'? How does it compare to others - Salzburg, Barcelona, Vienna, Stockholm and Rotterdam. 'The EF is for everyone and will not survive unless it addresses key questions and considers why so many feel a sense of isolation and apartheid. Robert welcomed the debate. About time too! Time to look at the Edinburgh Festival's relationship with the people. For 51 weeks Edinburgh is a cultural desert. EF is not invigorating the artistic life of the city as a consequence of the greatest arts festival in the world coming here. It ought to act as a real stimulus for Scots talent to step up to the plate and thrive.'


What is the role of these artistic festivals? We should be seeing the impact of the Edinburgh Festival here and in Wester Hailes and yet its not so. When we look at the EIF, why does one person have such a powerful position in deciding the programme? Why is their not a collective decision making? Surely that would be more democratic and with greater input? After all, it is public money.


5. Claire Fox, Institute of Ideas/Revolutionary Communist Party, London said 'This entire project, the EPF, is patronising and wrongfooted. The Edinburgh Festival is open to all. People in Wester Hailes and elsewhere have as much access as anyone and know the EF is there for them. They chose to have nothing to do with the Festival out of choice not because they felt excluded.


Are we to make it compulsory for 'the people' to go to museums and theatres? The people in Edinburgh make their choices and those who want to can easily participate in the 'greatest arts festival in the world'.


This contribution stimulated and provoked much agitation in the audience and panel. Unfortunately Claire Fox left at this point. She had to go to a show. That was unfortunate since many felt she might have learned something for her institute if she had stayed.


6. Simon Pia felt that criticisms of the Fringe by EPF sometimes went too far. He felt that the Fringe does try to keep prices down and get out to other areas. We should focus on the International Festival more for our criticism.


7. Richard Demarco said he couldn't agree less with Claire Fox. There is something in the air which brings us all together tonight and builds a head of steam behind the EPF. Leith is a desert when the festival is on. We ought to agree on a joint statement which we all sign here tonight and send it to the parliament. 'What about an 'Arts Audit' where we press Edinburgh councillors at the end of each year to explain and account for how many arts events they have presented in their ward in the past year?


Richard predicted that the 2003 Festival will once again claim to have broken all records for ticket sales, performances, performers and yet once again there are not enough art critics to cover all of the shows Once again a typical audience is about 4 or 5 people Once again our children go back to school when the festival is still on ('Disgrace' cries the audience). Once again ticket sales will be said to break records and that there were a record number of shows and a record number of performers.


8. Kevin Williamson in a very pointed contribution asked 'How many people from Wester Hailes will come into Edinburgh for a paid ticket event at the Festival? 'Where is the cultural appetite catered for in the local communities. 'Where is the clash of ideas at the Festival? And again 'Where is the clash of ideas at this Festival?'


We had them in the past, great flyting debates where authors, poets, critics would debate with no holds barred the great artistic questions of the day. The EPF is to be congratulated for staging such a debate as this one tonight. it belongs in that great tradition of earlier festivals.


Where is the controversy? There is none. It is anodyne and insipid. In particular he said the book festival was nought but a book sales convention.


9. Angus Calder believed that there were too many events and theatres and shows are often an uncomfortable experience. Venues were poor. The environment was not conducive to thorough enjoyment.There is something seedy about the book festival. It exists for little more than selling books - a books trade fair. The atmosphere around The Edinburgh Festival - people don't relate to it.


10. Tommy Shepherd said that stand-up comedy and music are the two most accessible art forms to engage in. 'Posh people fill the theatres and concert halls. Working class audiences go to the Fringe and comedy in the main. The Tattoo is unashamedly royalist and militarist.'


Tommy asked Paul Gudgin - What is the policy behind the Fringe? Is it to let 1,000 flowers bloom and just 'let things happen'? The commercialisation of the arts is driven by low budget tv. This is a festering cancer in the Edinburgh Festival. 'At the Strand, we charge £8 on a Saturday night and what money we make we use to subsidise the rest of the week. And yet across Edinburgh promoters charge £15 for 50 minutes of stand-up - outrageous! And the bubble is about to burst


"Anarchy" is the prevalent attitude of the Fringe and it is not good enough. It is not the way to approach health care and is no good for the arts either.


11. Johnny Murphy (audience) said that the Edinburgh Festival is commercial and yet doesn't pay the market rate like Salzburg. Sponsors are commercially motivated too. Cranhill Arts group, Jimmy Boyle's Music Festival and Craigmillar Arts Festival all succeeded,in the past for example because they each had the stamp of a personality on them - very difficult to sustain.


12. Joy Hendry said that barriers do exist. Claire Fox has never been more wrong. Who is this Festival for? How do we get people to and from the theatres? Why don't we try to get 'Gagarin Way' to Wester Hailes for next years Edinburgh People's Festival (2004)? How do we get art out to Wester Hailes in their language? 'Trainspotting' Let's be revolutionary. Art needs Wester Hailes so much. The Edinburgh Festival needs the new blood The Scottish Executive and City council must pay for the EPF - the 'creators of circus and magic.' EPF patronising? Quite the reverse. The Festival's future lies by moving on and moving out to Wester Hailes, Inch, Craigmillar


The Art's council should pay for EPF's programme to be included in the Fringe Brochure.I agree with Kevin Wiliamson that the festival ought to be a real focus for the debate on the arts. Bravo the EPF! Where is the Scottish arts influence in the Fringe? It's nowhere to be seen and therefore who is looking out for it?


13 Angus Calder mentioned that had he not been in attendance at the debate he had ticket for Siegfried, a Scottish Opera performance at the Lyceum for £10 and this was a remarkable piece of good value and high quality and that the EPF must never settle for anything other than the very highest standards of art. Remembering the film 'Billy Elliot' - we ought to encourage working class people to aspire to the highest possible artistic levels. The Edinburgh Youth Orchestra and the Edinburgh Youth Theatre represented the highest class artistically. Angus suggested the EPF consider commissioning now for next year. For £500 we could have a play based on a meeting Hamish Henderson had with Jeanie Robertson. There was also a play based on the life of John Maclean available to EPF to premiere.


The discussion then went out to the floor. 'SAGE' - a USA comic made a remarkably passionate plea. He told how he felt he had been abused by the 'corporate comedy machine.' He had paid for 10,000 flyers to be produced and yet half had never even been distributed. He had never had more than 4 people at his show and felt the Fringe had let him down badly buy not properly promoting his show. Feeling abused his enthusiasm for 'the greatest art show in the world had suffered. 'I came to be part of the Festival and now see it treat art as a happy meal'. the festival is eating itself'.


Tommy Shepard replied that Sage's experience was unfortunately the norm and not exceptional. Comedy cartels now run the show. Venues are let and sub let by the hour. 'This is a light entertainment trade fair. Run by big promoters who run multi million pound ad's and campaigns. Visiting companies are being charged a fortune for a miserable experience. Most do it only once. It is as Sage suggests, a joyless experience.


Kevin Williamson suggested that the EPF upholds a people's culture and must reflect the cultural class divide in everything it does. He has unbounded optimism about the EPF's prospects for next year. We need a festival that is bold and imaginative.


John Murphy - Art is the heart of society. No other buzz is as good as good art. If the EIF cannot stimulate intellectual energy then it is spent. The EPF deserves full credit for tonight and for bringing this energy out into the open.


In concluding the evenings submissions Sian Fiddimore thanked all contributors. She listed the many ideas which had arisen and thanked people for their positive attitude and optimism.


Onwards and upwards for the Edinburgh People's Festival - forward to 2004.